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	<title>Comments on: “Stand 4 Marriage Rally” &#8211; June 9</title>
	<atom:link href="http://beetlebabee.wordpress.com/2009/06/09/%e2%80%9cstand-4-marriage-rally%e2%80%9d-june-9/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://beetlebabee.wordpress.com/2009/06/09/%e2%80%9cstand-4-marriage-rally%e2%80%9d-june-9/</link>
	<description>Particularly Peculiar Discourse on Family Issues from the Grass Roots</description>
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		<title>By: Traditional Marriage Rallies Ignored by Media - Warner_Todd_Huston&#8217;s blog - RedState web01.prod.theplanet.eaglepub.com 174.120.27.221</title>
		<link>http://beetlebabee.wordpress.com/2009/06/09/%e2%80%9cstand-4-marriage-rally%e2%80%9d-june-9/#comment-6700</link>
		<dc:creator>Traditional Marriage Rallies Ignored by Media - Warner_Todd_Huston&#8217;s blog - RedState web01.prod.theplanet.eaglepub.com 174.120.27.221</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 17:57:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beetlebabee.wordpress.com/?p=3868#comment-6700</guid>
		<description>[...] blog named Beetle Blogger has a nice series of photos showing the big crowd that the June 9 event brought [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] blog named Beetle Blogger has a nice series of photos showing the big crowd that the June 9 event brought [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Smokezero</title>
		<link>http://beetlebabee.wordpress.com/2009/06/09/%e2%80%9cstand-4-marriage-rally%e2%80%9d-june-9/#comment-5708</link>
		<dc:creator>Smokezero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jun 2009 00:33:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beetlebabee.wordpress.com/?p=3868#comment-5708</guid>
		<description>Contract or not, it doesn&#039;t change the meaning into something completely different.  Its not like we&#039;re talking about changing the meaning of the word Marriage to mean &quot;When someone makes a right turn onto a freeway.&quot;  It broadens the spectrum of situations that can be placed within the given contract as it stands now.  Marriage between man and woman is still a contractual obligation.  So adding people to it doesn&#039;t change it.  At least by the ideas given so far.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Contract or not, it doesn&#8217;t change the meaning into something completely different.  Its not like we&#8217;re talking about changing the meaning of the word Marriage to mean &#8220;When someone makes a right turn onto a freeway.&#8221;  It broadens the spectrum of situations that can be placed within the given contract as it stands now.  Marriage between man and woman is still a contractual obligation.  So adding people to it doesn&#8217;t change it.  At least by the ideas given so far.</p>
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		<title>By: Secular Heretic</title>
		<link>http://beetlebabee.wordpress.com/2009/06/09/%e2%80%9cstand-4-marriage-rally%e2%80%9d-june-9/#comment-5705</link>
		<dc:creator>Secular Heretic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 22:25:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beetlebabee.wordpress.com/?p=3868#comment-5705</guid>
		<description>What you are describing Smokezero is a contract. Marriage is so much more.

Marriage always has been and always will be a covenant between a man and a woman. The core meaning is a part of human nature. We can&#039;t change the meaning of marriage because we can&#039;t change human nature. Most of us anyway have an innate desire to unite with a person of the opposite sex and form a life long relationship. The whole relationship type is stamped with in our very being and is evident by our different yet compatible bodies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What you are describing Smokezero is a contract. Marriage is so much more.</p>
<p>Marriage always has been and always will be a covenant between a man and a woman. The core meaning is a part of human nature. We can&#8217;t change the meaning of marriage because we can&#8217;t change human nature. Most of us anyway have an innate desire to unite with a person of the opposite sex and form a life long relationship. The whole relationship type is stamped with in our very being and is evident by our different yet compatible bodies.</p>
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		<title>By: Smokezero</title>
		<link>http://beetlebabee.wordpress.com/2009/06/09/%e2%80%9cstand-4-marriage-rally%e2%80%9d-june-9/#comment-5704</link>
		<dc:creator>Smokezero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 22:12:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beetlebabee.wordpress.com/?p=3868#comment-5704</guid>
		<description>Actually, it becomes two consenting adults who share medical benefits, assets, lives, dreams, ambitions, love, homes, &quot;for richer and poorer.&quot;  The ability to see your loved one in the hospital, to make decisions in proxy if necessary, all these things still make a marriage a marriage.  You are looking at a definition of the world as you see it now, which is fine, but changing it does not destroy the entire definition of the word.

I&#039;m sure there are actually some good arguments out there as to how things do change, (and I&#039;ve had some brilliant conversations with people on both sides of the fence as to either position) but the area that you are treading in is not a valuable argument, at least for the time being.

Try harder, in all sincerity.  Why would changing a definition from &quot;man and woman&quot; to &quot;two consenting adults&quot; change all the benefits I listed above?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, it becomes two consenting adults who share medical benefits, assets, lives, dreams, ambitions, love, homes, &#8220;for richer and poorer.&#8221;  The ability to see your loved one in the hospital, to make decisions in proxy if necessary, all these things still make a marriage a marriage.  You are looking at a definition of the world as you see it now, which is fine, but changing it does not destroy the entire definition of the word.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure there are actually some good arguments out there as to how things do change, (and I&#8217;ve had some brilliant conversations with people on both sides of the fence as to either position) but the area that you are treading in is not a valuable argument, at least for the time being.</p>
<p>Try harder, in all sincerity.  Why would changing a definition from &#8220;man and woman&#8221; to &#8220;two consenting adults&#8221; change all the benefits I listed above?</p>
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		<title>By: Emissary</title>
		<link>http://beetlebabee.wordpress.com/2009/06/09/%e2%80%9cstand-4-marriage-rally%e2%80%9d-june-9/#comment-5699</link>
		<dc:creator>Emissary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 21:08:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beetlebabee.wordpress.com/?p=3868#comment-5699</guid>
		<description>Smokezero,

No, I&#039;m talking about the core definition -- the part where if you change it, voting will cease to be voting and become something else.  When you strip away all the limitations based on age, gender, land-holding, etc., there is a core definition that remains voting.  But if you try to strip the &quot;limitations&quot; of gender from a relationship, what do you get?  Nothing.  Because the relationship is BASED on who can enter into the relationship.  If marriage is the &quot;husband-wife relationship&quot;, and you try to strip away the husband-wife relationship, what is left?  Absolutely nothing.  &quot;Any two consenting adults entering into a contract&quot; is a far cry from the husband-wife relationship.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Smokezero,</p>
<p>No, I&#8217;m talking about the core definition &#8212; the part where if you change it, voting will cease to be voting and become something else.  When you strip away all the limitations based on age, gender, land-holding, etc., there is a core definition that remains voting.  But if you try to strip the &#8220;limitations&#8221; of gender from a relationship, what do you get?  Nothing.  Because the relationship is BASED on who can enter into the relationship.  If marriage is the &#8220;husband-wife relationship&#8221;, and you try to strip away the husband-wife relationship, what is left?  Absolutely nothing.  &#8220;Any two consenting adults entering into a contract&#8221; is a far cry from the husband-wife relationship.</p>
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		<title>By: Smokezero</title>
		<link>http://beetlebabee.wordpress.com/2009/06/09/%e2%80%9cstand-4-marriage-rally%e2%80%9d-june-9/#comment-5696</link>
		<dc:creator>Smokezero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 20:39:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beetlebabee.wordpress.com/?p=3868#comment-5696</guid>
		<description>It actually did &quot;change the underlying definition of voting.&quot;  Our old definition of voting was for landholding males aged 21 and older.  Over time, that has changed to what we have now: Citizens, aged 18 and older.  The face of the voter has changed with each new step we took towards freedom and equality for all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It actually did &#8220;change the underlying definition of voting.&#8221;  Our old definition of voting was for landholding males aged 21 and older.  Over time, that has changed to what we have now: Citizens, aged 18 and older.  The face of the voter has changed with each new step we took towards freedom and equality for all.</p>
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		<title>By: Frisco</title>
		<link>http://beetlebabee.wordpress.com/2009/06/09/%e2%80%9cstand-4-marriage-rally%e2%80%9d-june-9/#comment-5695</link>
		<dc:creator>Frisco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 19:08:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beetlebabee.wordpress.com/?p=3868#comment-5695</guid>
		<description>D. Rolling:  I am pretty sure the increase in suicide of LGBT teenagers is due to the discrimination against them.  Just a hunch.  Last time I checked, sexual orientation doesn&#039;t predisposition someone to have suicidal tendencies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>D. Rolling:  I am pretty sure the increase in suicide of LGBT teenagers is due to the discrimination against them.  Just a hunch.  Last time I checked, sexual orientation doesn&#8217;t predisposition someone to have suicidal tendencies.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Emissary</title>
		<link>http://beetlebabee.wordpress.com/2009/06/09/%e2%80%9cstand-4-marriage-rally%e2%80%9d-june-9/#comment-5694</link>
		<dc:creator>Emissary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 17:38:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beetlebabee.wordpress.com/?p=3868#comment-5694</guid>
		<description>Smokezero,

And yet, with all of that, allowing women to vote did not change the underlying definition of voting.  But allowing homosexual marriage changes the underlying definition of marriage as the &quot;husband-wife relationship&quot;.  Relationships are a completely different ballpark, because at the core of the definition is the people allowed to enter into it.  And in close family relationships, gender is an essential part of those definitions.  Father-son relationship is not the same as mother-son because of gender.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Smokezero,</p>
<p>And yet, with all of that, allowing women to vote did not change the underlying definition of voting.  But allowing homosexual marriage changes the underlying definition of marriage as the &#8220;husband-wife relationship&#8221;.  Relationships are a completely different ballpark, because at the core of the definition is the people allowed to enter into it.  And in close family relationships, gender is an essential part of those definitions.  Father-son relationship is not the same as mother-son because of gender.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Smokezero</title>
		<link>http://beetlebabee.wordpress.com/2009/06/09/%e2%80%9cstand-4-marriage-rally%e2%80%9d-june-9/#comment-5692</link>
		<dc:creator>Smokezero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 17:33:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beetlebabee.wordpress.com/?p=3868#comment-5692</guid>
		<description>Also, I should point out, with women voting, there were stacks of books written about how if a woman was able to be equal in a mans world, then society itself would fall apart.  Preachers were quick to call the women to repentance for challenging &quot;God&#039;s given hierarchy.&quot;  Social scientists claimed that women getting an equal voice, and equal footing with men would disrupt the fabric of the family and society itself would come crashing down.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, I should point out, with women voting, there were stacks of books written about how if a woman was able to be equal in a mans world, then society itself would fall apart.  Preachers were quick to call the women to repentance for challenging &#8220;God&#8217;s given hierarchy.&#8221;  Social scientists claimed that women getting an equal voice, and equal footing with men would disrupt the fabric of the family and society itself would come crashing down.</p>
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		<title>By: Smokezero</title>
		<link>http://beetlebabee.wordpress.com/2009/06/09/%e2%80%9cstand-4-marriage-rally%e2%80%9d-june-9/#comment-5691</link>
		<dc:creator>Smokezero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 16:52:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beetlebabee.wordpress.com/?p=3868#comment-5691</guid>
		<description>Mr. Kearney, it wasn&#039;t Utah, it was Wyoming.  Very close, but not completely accurate.  There actually was some concern though about Utah, because they felt that the women would vote en masse with their husbands, and give too much weight to one issue, (as Utah had Polygamists).

Originally, the right to vote was allowed to women in Utah, because they felt that the women would vote against polygamy, however, when the women actually did vote, and for polygamy, they were again disenfranchised (via the Edmunds-Tucker Act of 1887).

Though, if we want to look at other &quot;significant&quot; changes that happened with Utah, Prohibition, the only Constitutional amendment that stopped someone from doing something (Via the 18th Amendment), was repealed with the last vote repealing it coming from voters in Utah, even though some LDS Church leaders were against the ratification of the 21st amendment, specifically Heber J. Grant, then president and prophet of the LDS church.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Kearney, it wasn&#8217;t Utah, it was Wyoming.  Very close, but not completely accurate.  There actually was some concern though about Utah, because they felt that the women would vote en masse with their husbands, and give too much weight to one issue, (as Utah had Polygamists).</p>
<p>Originally, the right to vote was allowed to women in Utah, because they felt that the women would vote against polygamy, however, when the women actually did vote, and for polygamy, they were again disenfranchised (via the Edmunds-Tucker Act of 1887).</p>
<p>Though, if we want to look at other &#8220;significant&#8221; changes that happened with Utah, Prohibition, the only Constitutional amendment that stopped someone from doing something (Via the 18th Amendment), was repealed with the last vote repealing it coming from voters in Utah, even though some LDS Church leaders were against the ratification of the 21st amendment, specifically Heber J. Grant, then president and prophet of the LDS church.</p>
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