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	<title>Comments on: Prop 8 Team to Help Maine with People&#8217;s Veto</title>
	<atom:link href="http://beetlebabee.wordpress.com/2009/06/19/prop-8-team-to-help-maine-with-peoples-veto/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://beetlebabee.wordpress.com/2009/06/19/prop-8-team-to-help-maine-with-peoples-veto/</link>
	<description>Particularly Peculiar Discourse on Family Issues from the Grass Roots</description>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://beetlebabee.wordpress.com/2009/06/19/prop-8-team-to-help-maine-with-peoples-veto/#comment-6047</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 05:05:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beetlebabee.wordpress.com/2009/06/19/prop-8-team-to-help-maine-with-peoples-veto/#comment-6047</guid>
		<description>one man +one woman = marriage.  
Psalm 14 v.1 = atheist
sorry about the past post, I thought those articles might be helpfull for our friends.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>one man +one woman = marriage.<br />
Psalm 14 v.1 = atheist<br />
sorry about the past post, I thought those articles might be helpfull for our friends.</p>
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		<title>By: Chairm</title>
		<link>http://beetlebabee.wordpress.com/2009/06/19/prop-8-team-to-help-maine-with-peoples-veto/#comment-5976</link>
		<dc:creator>Chairm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 06:29:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beetlebabee.wordpress.com/2009/06/19/prop-8-team-to-help-maine-with-peoples-veto/#comment-5976</guid>
		<description>Heh, Smokezero is right, sex has nothing to do with driving a car. 

Unless you are 16-year-old and taking your date up to Lover&#039;s Leap. AND unless you are the father of a daughter whose 16-year-old date drives a car. And there&#039;s the sex and cars and rock &#039;n&#039; roll thing. And ... well, I&#039;ll stop now.

Teach your children well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heh, Smokezero is right, sex has nothing to do with driving a car. </p>
<p>Unless you are 16-year-old and taking your date up to Lover&#8217;s Leap. AND unless you are the father of a daughter whose 16-year-old date drives a car. And there&#8217;s the sex and cars and rock &#8216;n&#8217; roll thing. And &#8230; well, I&#8217;ll stop now.</p>
<p>Teach your children well.</p>
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		<title>By: Secular Heretic</title>
		<link>http://beetlebabee.wordpress.com/2009/06/19/prop-8-team-to-help-maine-with-peoples-veto/#comment-5970</link>
		<dc:creator>Secular Heretic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 00:04:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beetlebabee.wordpress.com/2009/06/19/prop-8-team-to-help-maine-with-peoples-veto/#comment-5970</guid>
		<description>Smokezero is right. The purpose of sex it to continue the next generation, but it&#039;s not the only purpose. Sex also unites the spouses in a special way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Smokezero is right. The purpose of sex it to continue the next generation, but it&#8217;s not the only purpose. Sex also unites the spouses in a special way.</p>
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		<title>By: Smokezero</title>
		<link>http://beetlebabee.wordpress.com/2009/06/19/prop-8-team-to-help-maine-with-peoples-veto/#comment-5967</link>
		<dc:creator>Smokezero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 21:44:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beetlebabee.wordpress.com/2009/06/19/prop-8-team-to-help-maine-with-peoples-veto/#comment-5967</guid>
		<description>Actually, Ross, the purpose of sex is procreation.  If we are going over purpose alone, the biological meaning behind sex is for the combination of genetic material, so that we as a species can continue to exist in the next generation. But, relying on purpose alone is the same as saying the purpose behind transportation is motion from point A to point B. There are the other pleasures behind the mode of transportation (biking, vs driving, vs walking, each containing their own separate benefits).

I would say the same thing goes with sex in this case. The benefits of sex with two genders is that you can create children, thus fulfilling the overall purpose of sex. However, sex without love is the same as driving in a car without comforts and pleasures associated with your particular make and model of car. It gets you from point A to point B, but its not as fun, or comfortable.

Overall however, sex has nothing to do with driving a car.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, Ross, the purpose of sex is procreation.  If we are going over purpose alone, the biological meaning behind sex is for the combination of genetic material, so that we as a species can continue to exist in the next generation. But, relying on purpose alone is the same as saying the purpose behind transportation is motion from point A to point B. There are the other pleasures behind the mode of transportation (biking, vs driving, vs walking, each containing their own separate benefits).</p>
<p>I would say the same thing goes with sex in this case. The benefits of sex with two genders is that you can create children, thus fulfilling the overall purpose of sex. However, sex without love is the same as driving in a car without comforts and pleasures associated with your particular make and model of car. It gets you from point A to point B, but its not as fun, or comfortable.</p>
<p>Overall however, sex has nothing to do with driving a car.</p>
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		<title>By: Ross</title>
		<link>http://beetlebabee.wordpress.com/2009/06/19/prop-8-team-to-help-maine-with-peoples-veto/#comment-5955</link>
		<dc:creator>Ross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 15:44:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beetlebabee.wordpress.com/2009/06/19/prop-8-team-to-help-maine-with-peoples-veto/#comment-5955</guid>
		<description>Secular Heretic says:  &quot;Bill, same sex attraction is not normal.  It is a desire which takes sexuality and twists it around so that it no longer fulfills its purpose&quot;

Wow, how very sad that Secular Heretic thinks the purpose of sexuality is procreation and not love.  I feel bad for his spouse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Secular Heretic says:  &#8220;Bill, same sex attraction is not normal.  It is a desire which takes sexuality and twists it around so that it no longer fulfills its purpose&#8221;</p>
<p>Wow, how very sad that Secular Heretic thinks the purpose of sexuality is procreation and not love.  I feel bad for his spouse.</p>
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		<title>By: Chairm</title>
		<link>http://beetlebabee.wordpress.com/2009/06/19/prop-8-team-to-help-maine-with-peoples-veto/#comment-5950</link>
		<dc:creator>Chairm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 13:06:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beetlebabee.wordpress.com/2009/06/19/prop-8-team-to-help-maine-with-peoples-veto/#comment-5950</guid>
		<description>Chastity is not the same as loneliness. Why would you misconstrue it that way, Bill?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chastity is not the same as loneliness. Why would you misconstrue it that way, Bill?</p>
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		<title>By: Chairm</title>
		<link>http://beetlebabee.wordpress.com/2009/06/19/prop-8-team-to-help-maine-with-peoples-veto/#comment-5949</link>
		<dc:creator>Chairm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 13:04:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beetlebabee.wordpress.com/2009/06/19/prop-8-team-to-help-maine-with-peoples-veto/#comment-5949</guid>
		<description>Bill, what makes you think that arranging for &#039;male role models (uncles, friends, etc)&quot; is the equivalent of mom having and raising her children with the father of her children?

All of us are born equal, of a man and a woman. Barring dire circumstnaces of tragedy, each child has a birthright to be raised by the man and woman who created him.

You seem adamant that sex difference is of vital importance to adult homosexuals. That is, a lesbian could not love and marry a man because the difference between men and women makes all the difference to her. And yet you seem just as adamant that sex difference is of no importance when it comes to the children being raised by the same lesbian woman. There is a huge contradiction in your comments right there.

You must acknowledge that sex difference is a reality. Afterall, sexual orientation is based on such differentiation. But you would minimize the significance of this fact for children raised without a father -- or with men downgraded to role models without parental status.

If having a father is superfluous, why bother with male role models? On the other hand, if male role models are needed, why segregated fatherhood from motherhood?

No, it does not suffice to say that needy adults trump the needs of children.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill, what makes you think that arranging for &#8216;male role models (uncles, friends, etc)&#8221; is the equivalent of mom having and raising her children with the father of her children?</p>
<p>All of us are born equal, of a man and a woman. Barring dire circumstnaces of tragedy, each child has a birthright to be raised by the man and woman who created him.</p>
<p>You seem adamant that sex difference is of vital importance to adult homosexuals. That is, a lesbian could not love and marry a man because the difference between men and women makes all the difference to her. And yet you seem just as adamant that sex difference is of no importance when it comes to the children being raised by the same lesbian woman. There is a huge contradiction in your comments right there.</p>
<p>You must acknowledge that sex difference is a reality. Afterall, sexual orientation is based on such differentiation. But you would minimize the significance of this fact for children raised without a father &#8212; or with men downgraded to role models without parental status.</p>
<p>If having a father is superfluous, why bother with male role models? On the other hand, if male role models are needed, why segregated fatherhood from motherhood?</p>
<p>No, it does not suffice to say that needy adults trump the needs of children.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://beetlebabee.wordpress.com/2009/06/19/prop-8-team-to-help-maine-with-peoples-veto/#comment-5936</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 05:46:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beetlebabee.wordpress.com/2009/06/19/prop-8-team-to-help-maine-with-peoples-veto/#comment-5936</guid>
		<description>Yes, you don&#039;t have the right to marry a person of the same-sex, but you DO have the right and ability to marry the ONE person of your choice. A gay person in California does not have that same ability because they are only emotionally and sexually attracted to a person of the same gender. It is foolish and illogical to imply that a gay person has the same rights because they can marry a person of the opposite. Obviously that is not a REALISTIC option for a gay person. If you can&#039;t see the total illogic to your original statement, then I can&#039;t help you there.

And you contradicted yourself quite nicely re: gay parents. You first say that a gay person has the capacity to be a good parent but then you shift gears and say that if they can&#039;t provide a mom and dad, then they shouldn&#039;t be parents. If by this you&#039;re suggesting that two moms, for example, make sure that the child has consistent male role models (uncles, friends, etc) in their life, then I agree. If you&#039;re suggesting anything else, then again, you&#039;re being illogical and unrealistic.

SH: Your response is an example of the type that I was trying to initially do a parody of. To be quite blunt, your statements are absurd. What a ridiculous and foolish thing to say: If you&#039;re gay, you should live a &quot;chaste life.&quot; Gee, that&#039;s sounds like a great idea! Why didn&#039;t I think of that? Why have a loving committed relationship with a same-sex partner, when I could voluntarily choose to be lonely for the rest of my life? 

I&#039;m not sure why I bothered to respond, but consider this to be my last statement. Keep on truckin&#039; down the road of ignorance and mean-spiritedness!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, you don&#8217;t have the right to marry a person of the same-sex, but you DO have the right and ability to marry the ONE person of your choice. A gay person in California does not have that same ability because they are only emotionally and sexually attracted to a person of the same gender. It is foolish and illogical to imply that a gay person has the same rights because they can marry a person of the opposite. Obviously that is not a REALISTIC option for a gay person. If you can&#8217;t see the total illogic to your original statement, then I can&#8217;t help you there.</p>
<p>And you contradicted yourself quite nicely re: gay parents. You first say that a gay person has the capacity to be a good parent but then you shift gears and say that if they can&#8217;t provide a mom and dad, then they shouldn&#8217;t be parents. If by this you&#8217;re suggesting that two moms, for example, make sure that the child has consistent male role models (uncles, friends, etc) in their life, then I agree. If you&#8217;re suggesting anything else, then again, you&#8217;re being illogical and unrealistic.</p>
<p>SH: Your response is an example of the type that I was trying to initially do a parody of. To be quite blunt, your statements are absurd. What a ridiculous and foolish thing to say: If you&#8217;re gay, you should live a &#8220;chaste life.&#8221; Gee, that&#8217;s sounds like a great idea! Why didn&#8217;t I think of that? Why have a loving committed relationship with a same-sex partner, when I could voluntarily choose to be lonely for the rest of my life? </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure why I bothered to respond, but consider this to be my last statement. Keep on truckin&#8217; down the road of ignorance and mean-spiritedness!</p>
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		<title>By: Secular Heretic</title>
		<link>http://beetlebabee.wordpress.com/2009/06/19/prop-8-team-to-help-maine-with-peoples-veto/#comment-5927</link>
		<dc:creator>Secular Heretic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 23:57:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beetlebabee.wordpress.com/2009/06/19/prop-8-team-to-help-maine-with-peoples-veto/#comment-5927</guid>
		<description>Well said BB.

Bill, same sex attraction is not normal. It is a desire which takes sexuality and twists it around so that it no longer fulfills its purpose. Rather than encourage these thoughts and have them manifest in homosexual behaviour it would be better to live a chaste life. This is not pushing sexuality under the rug but admitting honestly the feelings you have and acting in a way which is uplifting for yourself. Everyone must say no to their sexual desires. If everyone could not say no then we would simply be behaving like dogs in heat. It is freeing to be able to control our sexual desires and so no.  I don&#039;t know if we can change what we are sexually attracted to but we can change our behaviour and say no to sex if it is not in keeping with the purpose of sex.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said BB.</p>
<p>Bill, same sex attraction is not normal. It is a desire which takes sexuality and twists it around so that it no longer fulfills its purpose. Rather than encourage these thoughts and have them manifest in homosexual behaviour it would be better to live a chaste life. This is not pushing sexuality under the rug but admitting honestly the feelings you have and acting in a way which is uplifting for yourself. Everyone must say no to their sexual desires. If everyone could not say no then we would simply be behaving like dogs in heat. It is freeing to be able to control our sexual desires and so no.  I don&#8217;t know if we can change what we are sexually attracted to but we can change our behaviour and say no to sex if it is not in keeping with the purpose of sex.</p>
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		<title>By: beetlebabee</title>
		<link>http://beetlebabee.wordpress.com/2009/06/19/prop-8-team-to-help-maine-with-peoples-veto/#comment-5925</link>
		<dc:creator>beetlebabee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 22:22:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beetlebabee.wordpress.com/2009/06/19/prop-8-team-to-help-maine-with-peoples-veto/#comment-5925</guid>
		<description>The whole unfair aspect just doesn&#039;t hold any water with me.  You are a person right?  As a person, you have every right I have.  So where&#039;s all this chip on your shoulder coming from?  I don&#039;t have the right to marry the same sex either.  You don&#039;t want rights, you&#039;ve got those already.  You want different rights, special rights.  I just don&#039;t think that&#039;s a good idea.  It&#039;s got consequences for more than what you admit or allow.

Someone who is gay absolutely has the capacity to be a good parent.  No one is saying differently.  However, that does not change the fact that kids need a mom and a dad.  So if someone who suffers from same sex attraction can&#039;t provide that for a child, they probably shouldn&#039;t be parents.  Same with single people.  Kids need a mom and a dad.  It&#039;s pretty simple.  You can get all huffy about it if you want, you can claim it&#039;s all about you, but it&#039;s not.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The whole unfair aspect just doesn&#8217;t hold any water with me.  You are a person right?  As a person, you have every right I have.  So where&#8217;s all this chip on your shoulder coming from?  I don&#8217;t have the right to marry the same sex either.  You don&#8217;t want rights, you&#8217;ve got those already.  You want different rights, special rights.  I just don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s a good idea.  It&#8217;s got consequences for more than what you admit or allow.</p>
<p>Someone who is gay absolutely has the capacity to be a good parent.  No one is saying differently.  However, that does not change the fact that kids need a mom and a dad.  So if someone who suffers from same sex attraction can&#8217;t provide that for a child, they probably shouldn&#8217;t be parents.  Same with single people.  Kids need a mom and a dad.  It&#8217;s pretty simple.  You can get all huffy about it if you want, you can claim it&#8217;s all about you, but it&#8217;s not.</p>
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