I’ve done that a few times in-person but for an on-line version, see the following. This version manages to put into black-and-white the scientific evidence versus the philosophic argument. It can be heavy-going but I think we touch almost every point regarding what the scientific eye can discern. The science is informative but so is the harsh philosophy of the pro-choice commenter.

The discussion of abortion is preceded by a lively discussion of fertility and marriage. Scroll down to my initial remarks on conception — at comment at 7. February 2009, 4:56 — and from there the discussion flares. I left the closing word to my opponent.

http://www.gaysdefendmarriage.com/2009/01/30/but-we-let-infertile-couples-marry/#comments

Cheerio,
Chairm

Gay activists who criticized Catholic Charities for adhering to the teachings of the Catholic Church insisted that the Government teach Catholics how to be better Catholics.

Supposedly the way to do that is to impose anti-Catholic policies on Catholic agencies and Catholic citizens.

And, they’d encourage government policies that would reach inside and promote schism in the Catholic Church. Catholics, they demand, should rebel against the leadership of the Church, including, of course, the Christ of Christianity.

Catholic Charities was threatened, as it is now in DC, with being refused a license to arrange for adoptions even for Catholic women who’d relinquish their children rather than abort them.

Oddly enough, in Massachusetts, there are plenty of pro-gay agencies and in fact several which cater specifically to gay and lesbian clients.

The most active, and the earliest to mobilize, in the AIDS crisis in Massachusetts was … Catholic Charities. And that assistance was made possible more by the unpaid good works and the voluntary financial contributions of individuals than it was by state funding. Catholic Charities could have continued its adoption services without Government funding — but not without the license. That’s the truth.

But these are the same zealots of gay identity politics who loudly insist on the seperation of church and state.

And the same who now cry crocodile tears for orphans and mothers in crisis.

Catholic Charities in Massachusetts was the most significant provider of adoption services for the most hard to place children. It did far more for children in need than the entire gay population of that state. Far more than the relatively minor group of gay persons who show an interest in adoption.

The anti-Catholic policy of SSMers in Massachusetts cannot be disguised as pro-child and pro-liberty. On the other hand, Catholic Charities sought only to continue to provide services according to its higher standards — while meeting the basic standards that have long-established in the licensing of adoption agencies. To continue to license Catholic Charities would not have meant the end of gay adoptions in that state. But the SSMers sought the end of Catholic Charities adoption services, anyway.

Totalitarian impulses are spurred by identity politics; and that’s a threat to our liberties — not only religious liberties but also freedom of conscience even for the indifferent or the irreligious amongst us. When identity politics is asserted as supreme to everything else, as per this example, then, expect that citizens will become wards of the state.

This is the meaning of Ronald Reagan’s forewarning that we remember, always, that the People have a government, not the other way around. SSMers see it differently.

Right?